Winning attitudes - Courage & Problem-Solving(Stand up & Fight to finish)

Hi XXXXX,

Whatever happened is for good, whatever is happening is for good, whatever will happen also is for good.

You "WERE" like what you mentioned below, you contacted us, some of us wrote back- all for good.

You have to invoke your survival instincts, thats what Vinayak had tried to catalyse, and thats super good. This group is a bootcamp for 1) learning to use ones own fears to excel 2) to chanelise ones own rage positively and hence to never ever give up and to never die on one's knees 3) to spread the fire of revolution to newbies far and wide 4) to realise ones true calling and to learn the joys in doing so - the way to these achieved are not easy or soft, so don't worry if you get spanked during induction training!- because its all good.

Without u urselves invoking your fighting spirit and problem solving attitude there's nothing we as third parties can do- we can tell u a thousand ideas to crush your aggresor(s) but u wont be able to implement any of these ideas, until such time you STAND UR GROUND & FIGHT(after ackowledging the root causes and contributing factors , in your case these are 'Sadistic' mentality of your wife and you being "too soft" on even your aggresor which is feeding the aggressor's confidence even more). See this video for possible inspiration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3koC6v9VHyk .

You may not realise how important it is to first "Pick Yourselves" up and then solve your problem one by one(like you would have done with your Mathematics Question papers).

The best way to get inspired to do all this is to meet the SIF-Chennai group in one of their weekly meetings, contact Girish at 9381026333 or Ramkumar 9941315784 for more information.

I remember a recent Chennai case similar to yours(the case of hubby_in_trouble (at) yahoo.com, copying this mail to him for his inputs on this) was successfully tackled by the group, you could use a similar game plan, customised to the facts of your case.

What I suggested to "hubby_in_trouble" was this -> http://bok498a.blogspot.com/2008/06/first-strikers-advantage-live-saving.html , I guess this will look scary for new members, but as one gains confidence by interacting with the local group, you will do more scarier things than u ever imagined u would.

Warm Regards,

Re: Serious family problem
Posted by: "Rahul Verma"
Sat Aug 2, 2008 6:44 am (PDT)
After Vinayak's reply, there is hardly anything others can add.....
XXXXX - please answer the questions Vinayak asked so that we understand your thinking better
And attend the weekly meetings as pointed out by Girish

----- Original Message ----
From: e_vinayak
To: saveindianfamily@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2008 3:29:33 PM
Subject: [SaveIndianFamily] Re: Serious family problem

I generally sympathise a lot with victims

I'm myself am one and so the sympathy I
assume is natural

However I am confounded by some issues here
.... so help me understand

1. Your wife has been working for approx 8
months now...but you do NOT even know where
she works...

...I fully understand that she did
NOT tell you but haven't you engaged a
security agency / detective agency or a
freind who can find out ???

If you can't find out who will ??

2. You say she yells at your mom, she
speaks badly ...bets that your mum will get
out etc etc etc.... There are two extremens
in handling bad behaviour ... (a) giving it
back i.e being bad yourself IF YOU have the
guts and the mental strength or (b) just
ignoring the bad behaviour .... ... but how
do you expect us to react when you say you
are so scared of something that you can't
even tell this bitch to shut up ?????

3. What have you done these 3 years ?? I
mean other than writing this pitiable mail
what have you done ??

4. The reason I am asking all these
questions is because we set up originally to
fight against un some scrupulous police or
some un scrupulous people misusing the
law.... NOW in your case there is NO misuse
of law till date... this is a case of wife
ill treating the hubby and the hubby
wringing his hands in fear NOT knowing what
to do ???

dear ...oh dear.....

I do NOT know how to respond to DAY TO DAY
ill treatment that a MAN is happily (or
sadly) tolerating for 3 years.....

what made me write this is
^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^

>Members please help me on how to deal. I do
>not want to leave the child nor my Mom. I
>plan to seperate my mom from the current
>house and

You are SO SCARED that you are asking us IF
your mom can take HER own things and get out
??? GOD ...YOU ARE asking us how to throw
you mum out...????

Some questions
------------ ---------

- are you ready to fight ?????

- Mister ... !!!! ARE YOU READY TO FIGHT
BACK ???? OR ARE YOU EXPECTING SOME MIRACLE
??? or do you plan to run away from this
problem ???

- what is that you want from a SELF HELP
GROUP like us ?? just to tell how to throw
your mum out ????

I'm confounded .....

regards
Vinayak

>Hello Sirs,
>
>I am XXXX from chennai. I got married 3
>yr back. i did not borrow a single pie as
>dowry. Her family members - dad, mom, 1
>younger brother & 1 younger sister. They
>hail from Tuticorin. The Marriage was held
>in Tuticorin. From the day of marriage, my
>wife used to speak sharply, i mean always
>deeply hurt others. After wedding ceremonies
>, she bet my Mom that she would send her Old
>Home center within one year. She started
>hating my mom like anything from day one and
>did many unlikely things. I also counselled
>my wife many times and told my mom is very
>important to me and i am her only son.
>Before proceeding to my problem, i would
>like to tell a few words about my Mom.
>
>My mom struggled to bring me up, with great
>financial difficulty , since my dad died
>when i was 9 yr old. None of her relatives
>supported her and she struggled to get the
>govt. job on compassionate ground, since my
>dad was a govt.employee. She gave good
>schooling, college and all facilities i
>required in my life. Today am in a very gud
>position. My mom is a very sick patient.
>From her early years she struggled for her
>life even with her parents and family before
>marriage. It is after her marriage she feels
>she is better. Her first child (my brother)
>died at an early age and her 3rd child (my
>sister) also died at an early age. I am the
>middle son and I like my mom a lot. She is
>suffering from BP, Sugar, Psoriasis,
>Arthities, Liver Stone, Chest problem etc..
>
>After my Child was Born she and her family
>starting acting entriely aginst us. She want
>my mom to be seperated. She does not do any
>domestic chores. nor she looks after my
>child. She used to beat my child oftenly to
>show her anger against me and my Mom. Till
>last year Nov'07 she was in the house just
>eating wat we cooked and just sleeping. from
>11 am - 5 pm. Even when the child is crying
>for food, she just give some bottle milk and
>make him sleep. Becos of this my child
>health had a serious problem. From Mid of
>Nov'07, she started going to job. She leaves
>my house by 7.30 am and returns at 10.30 pm.
>i do not where she is working nor her salary
>.. but i guess she is working in some tele-
>call centre. Daily she creates problem, i
>means she tortures me and my mom. She wants
>me to sign the divorce paper first, so that
>she can get monetary benefit. She has openly
>told that she needs divorce , till such she
>will torture us. Even her parents also
>supports her activity and she has informed
>her relative about us in negative way.(like
>we donot provide food, dowry torture etc..)
>
>She has gone to the extent of telling that
>she and family has already arranged persons
>/ gundas by paying Rs. 10,000/- to kill me
>and my mom. But she is waiting for my money.
>Me and my mom love the child very much and
>so we are tolerating her activities. We do
>not awnt the child to get affected in any
way.
>
>Members please help me on how to deal. I do
>not want to leave the child nor my Mom. I
>plan to seperate my mom from the current
>house and provide her a peaceful life. Can
>she take her belongings or I think my wife
>create a problem. Request your valuable
>guidance..

Counter cases during and after the case against one

And here comes the mother of all 'Cracks' for this bar of 195 Cr.PC , see below the links for the landmark judgement of Marwah Vs Marwah(Citation 2005 (4) SCC 370), I have used this in my counter cases(under sections 209, 211, 195, 197, 460, 463, and whatnot, even I lost count). Download this judgement here.

See a post explaining all this: http://bok498a.blogspot.com/2007/05/arrive-with-guns-blazing-counters-quash.html , actually sit and read the whole blog as I suggested initially :), it will serve u good, take my word on it. See my case details and the killer thoughts behind planning a counter-offensive(our military bretheren must be keen on knowing these counter-surveilance mode thoughts) at http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wPl1SANrqCIhMSTl0U7w520JpBhhfMhdPUY1lvs3qyneu0J04Xsc7h2Aox4lpxErTKuroEt2HHsw2lfDZTUAAw/Counter%20Charge%20498a.pdf (also attached, this is an ealrier version so it has some factual errors, like the explanation of Cr.PC 340, is wrongly refering to that of IPC 340, will correct it soon and re-upload/blog for posterity)

For Dowry Prohibition section, 3(giving dowry being punishable) please see the following links


Nyayayodha's blog

Following is the link for section for tortured husbands(needs you to register in this site and be logged in) :-

http://www.ghrs.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=21&id=35&Itemid=117

Following is the link to Sample DP3 application :

http://www.ghrs.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=95&Itemid=154

******
Hi Gokul ji,

I was just reading CrPC-Section 195 and it says that

"No court shall take cognizance - Of any offence punishable under any of the following sections of the Indian Penal Code (45 of 1860), namely, sections 193 to 196 (both inclusive), 199, 200, 205 to 211 (both inclusive) and 228, when such offence is alleged to have been committed in, or in relation to, any proceeding in any court"

Thanks & Regards
Jaspreet Singh

On 7/10/08, Gokul P.R wrote:
I am mentioning below some IPC sections which can be generally used to file cases against the wife's side. The is RIPE NOW, GO FOR IT. When u r planning for counter offenses, read the posts in http://bok498a.blogspot.com/ which gives u pragmatic insights to dealing with court system, advocates and the Police, theory may not work, but insights coupled with consultations will.

S.191 :Giving false evidence+ S.340(1) of CrPC for Perjury @ Family/Magistrate Court
matter
S.209 : Dishonest claim
S.211 : False charge of offence made with intent to injure
S.306 : Abetment of Suicide
S.361 : For child - Kidnapping from lawful guardianship
S.378,380,381,382 :Theft
S.383 : Extortion
S.402 : Dacoity (Cognisable, Non-bailable and Non-compundable- just like 498a :)
S.406 : Criminal Breach of Trust
S.463 : Forgery
S.499: Defamation
S.506&507: Criminal Intimidation
Sections which u can check with ur advocate(I dont remember the IPC section offhand for these crimes) - Threatening, Abbetment of crime, these may be referring to a period before even your wife filed cases against you.

Some other sections of IPC helpful for husband side:
182 False information, with intent to cause public servant to use his lawful power to the injury of another person
191 Giving false evidence
192 Fabricating false evidence
195A Threatening any person to
give false evidence
196 Using evidence known to be false
197 Issuing or signing false certificate
198 Using as true a certificate known to be false
199 False statement made in declaration which is by law
receivable as evidence
200 Using as true such declaration knowing it to be false
201 Causing disappearance of evidence of offence, or
giving false information to screen offender
202 Intentional omission to give information of offence by person bound to inform
203 Giving false information respecting an offence commited
204 destruction of document to prevent its production as evidence
205 False personation for purpose of act or proceeding in suit or prosecution there are
more


Regards
Gokul

Buddy Aa wrote: Hello All,

i am working in Indian Army and my brother has been harassed by 498a .

After getting b-report/final report in the charge sheet can put
counter cases like miss use of 498a ...?

1. Is this right time (after B-Report) to put counter cases of miss
use of 498a? or its too late now ?

2. Defamation case ?

3.182 IPC ?

Please list all the counter cases for 498a and relevent cases .

Also I would like to know all these counter cases are civil/criminal ?
Please give me some more details how register all these cases and
what needs to prepared ,i don't want to put any false cases and then put myself in trouble......if any one has done this please share
experiences. .....etc

I don't want to teach a lesson to 498a wife, I would like to seek for
justice and fair for my brother who have been legally terrorised by 498a
and 498a wife.....Etc

Please send me the quite capable with very good reputation advocate in Hyderabad.

Please help

regards,
Buddy

Bibles 4 SIFians, Be a Playa.... Baazigar O'Baazigar

Hi All,

I agree to Myidbnt for 90% of the time!(there are risks of backfire if you get your wife fired by counter cases/actions against her), but if you are what they call a "PLAYA"(Khiladi) ‘propah’, u could doctor the spin yet again against the same wife who lost her job.

You just have to impress upon the court that the company fired her ONLY after they were convinced that she misused the law and hence is facing a counter case from you. So now you not only can defend your maintenance or any other possible backlash, but also use this flip-flop show yet against your wife by telling the court in appropriate words.... “if the company is convinced, why are you not”, at least cite the fact that you could get the company convinced of her wrong doings and get a favourable hearing from the courts(u should, if possible, mask/downplay the fact, if it is so, that the company fired her only because of the company's HR policy on employees with criminal proceedings against them)

Tables can surely be turned, but it needs a PLAYA, an International Khiladi in thought and actions(ab seedhey hoke kuch faida toh nahin hein, better bend it like Beckham and enjoy doing so). Try karo 100 mein se 10 aap bhi playa ban sakta hein. Even if there is 90% chance that your ploys backfire, Indian system is full of loop holes , USE IT, PLAY IT.

But like all good Players(superlative slang of which is 'Playa' ), you should be ready to lose the game, only to win it back at Sundown.

Haar ke jeethney walon ko........ yes Baazigar kahthey hien.

Dont just be afraid, u are in the 'No-risk' zone, if u assess and understand your risk perceptions appropriately. Don’t be shy to be a PLAYA or a Baazigar. Reminding you all once again, if u "will" enough, there would be a way enough.
The key is playing to the gallery, with the Loop holes, whatever may be your personal situation.

For more details of how to play, read criminal manual(and Family and Divorce laws if thats ur pain area), URSELVES , and make it your bible along with other books mentioned below as appropriate to ur case, details as below.

I : http://www.unilawbooks.com/search.asp?Page=2&subj=Transfer (2nd page , no.18th item)

Criminal Manual (Pkt. Size) by Universal ( Pages - 631, Hardbound, Year - 2006 ) Price : Rs 195.00 Description : General Contents: Effective Date Natifications. New Amendments at a Glance. The Criminal Law (Amendment) Act, 2005 (2 of 2006) The Code of Criminal Procedure (Amendment) Act, 2005 (25 of 2005) as amended by Act 25 of 2006. Consolidated Table of Cases. The Code of Criminal Procedure, 1973:- as amended by The Code of Criminal Procedure (Amendment Act, 2005 (25 of 2005) and The Criminal Law (Amendment) Act, 2 of 2006). The Indian Evidence Act, 1872: as amended by The Criminal Law (Amendment) Act, 2005 (2 of 2006). Consolidated Subject Index. http://www.unilawbooks.com/search.asp?Page=2&subj=Transfer (2nd page , no.18th item)This version(pocket size) of criminal manual is from Universal Law Publishing co. Rs.195(It contains Cr.PC, IPC and Indian evidence act).

II: https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no42204.htm

Commentary on the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955 : Incorporating All the Amendments in the Act, Rules from the Commencement of the Act with Latest Case Law and Extracts from Hindu Adoptions and Maintenance Act, 1956/Sukh Dev Aggarwal. Delhi, The Bright Law House, 2005, viii, 720 p., $35. Details No. 42204

Contents: I. Preliminary: 1. Short title and extent. 2. Application of act. 3. Definitions. 4. Overriding effect of act. II. Hindu marriages: 5. Condition for Hindu marriage. 6. [Repealed]. 7. Ceremonies for a Hindu marriage. 8. Registration of Hindu marriage. III. Restitution of conjugal rights and judicial separation: 9. Restitution of conjugal rights. 10. Judicial separation. IV. Nullity of marriage and divorce: 11. Void marriages. 12. Voidable marriages. 13. Divorce. 13A. Alternate relief in divorce proceedings. 13B. Divorce by mutual consent. 14. No petition for divorce to be presented within one year of marriage. 15. Divorced persons when may marry again. 16. Legitimacy of children of void and voidable marriages. 17. Punishment of bigamy. 18. Punishment for contravention of certain other conditions for Hindu marriage. V. Jurisdiction and procedure: 19. Court to which petition shall be presented. 20. Contents and verification of petitions. 21. Application of act V of 1908. 21A. Power to transfer petitions in certain cases. 21B. Special provision relating to trial and disposal of petitioners under the act. 21C. Documentary evidence. 22. Proceedings to be in camera and may not be printed or published. 23. Decree in proceedings. 23A. Relief for respondent in divorce and other proceedings. 24. Maintenance pendent lite and expenses of proceedings. 25. Permanent alimony and maintenance. 26. Custody of children. 27. Disposal of property. 28. Appeals from decrees and orders. 28A. Enforcement of decrees and orders. VI. Savings and repeals: 29. Savings. 30. [Repeals]. Appendices: 1. The Hindu Adoptions and Maintenance Act, 1956. 2. Rules of High Court. 3. Registration of marriage rules.

III: and may be: https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no10198.htm#.

Nullity of Marriage Under Hindu Law/Manjit Singh Nijjar. 1994, xvi, 227 p., $17.
Contents: Preface. 1. Marriage and matrimonial reliefs under The Hindu Marriage Act, 1955. 2. Bigamy. 3. Prohibited degree relationship. 4. Sapinda relationship. 5. Impotency. 6. Mental incapacity. 7. Consent to marriage obtained by force and fraud. 8. Pre-marriage pregnancy. 9. Forum of petition, effect of decree and post-decree consequental relief. Appendices. List of cases. Bibliography. Index.
"This book thoroughly examines the provisions relating to the nullity of marriage under section 11 and 12 of the Hindu Marriage Act and makes indepth study of the juridical approach to the said provisions. The book also highlights the shortcomings and infirmities so as to make the substantive provisions and administration of these provisions leakproof and lucid. A critical approach been has undertaken to make the book useful and complete from all aspects."
______________________________________________________________________________
Keep these books at least under ur pillow, and it will serve u that much better!.
Better.....Buy books like these for ur groups/libraries, if people know of better/additional references, pour them in too.

USE THEM, PLAY BY THEM.... and be the PLAYA.......

Regards,

Gokul
9821414336(Bombay), http://gokul.go.to

PS: Also blogged at the Book of Knowledge Blog: http://bok498a.blogspot.com/2007/04/bibles-4-sifians-be-playa-baazigar.html

Post-498a Scenario: When passport is feared of being seized, and person anticipates detention for an unreasonable time

If the husband(or the victim family) is working abroad, and is facing a high profile opponent who is legally terrorising them, with the girl's side having a lot of political or other influence, and has a lot of clout in the system. The bail may be opposed strongly, or after bail they may have to attend police station at frequent interwels or at the will of the police- this itself is a worry- but an application to relax the bail conditions could be the remedy).


The main problems are whether the bail would be denied or whether the passport will be impounded/seized and they will be kept remanded for an unreasonable time(there by affecting ones job) with influence and money power.

See how Mr.Rao had got the passport released from HC andhra(see details in message: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saveindianfamily/message/19156 ). One could also try emailing Mr.Rao email: rao257 (at) yahoo.com.

But in these kind of cases the real trouble is with the influence and power of the girls side, and to nuetralise the potency of the girl's side influence, one has try and submit petitions(to Authorities right from PM, President to MP,MLA, political party local presidents & other important office holders, similarly with the police authorities from IG to SHO(Station's Senior inspector, clearly mention the police station and Court where ur case is going on in your petitions)) mentioning the boys apprehensions of being detained for an unreasonable time in india with his passport also not being given back, there by affecting/losing his job abroad, etc. etc.

The effect of this kind of petition is not because all those higher officials and authorities care a damn, but that the Station Senior inspector, other police officers involved in the case and DCP of the zone, and the Magistrate(put a copy to the magistrate too, ask your advocate about this) will think twice about yielding to the influence of the girl's side.

But one may have reservations about this strategy, since both the families could have a lot of common friends and 'biradri' folks between them- but what better to do , in this case(or for that matter any other), other than to fight out fully.

This is exactly the same strategy which saved many victims(this was actually advised by a high ranking police officer, so do understand that this is a time-tested and sure-fire strategy)- as this has worked out in the boys favour in cases where the girls side were putting a lot of pressure right from delhi to the local congress committee, etc.- but they are all free and hitting back at the girls side now

The son can avoid coming to India and just be where he is, but the parents Passports also could be seized, and hence they cant visit their son + this 498a case will never be closed until the son comes and faces the legal procedures. Better fight now, sooner or later u will have to either do it or submit to the oppression- this is our frank opinion.

Some references, coutsey to the respective sources(not plaigerism, just info dissemination)

1) http://ipc498a.wordpress.com/2007/04/12/sc-judgment-maneka-gandhi-vs-union-of-india-1978/ ->

SC Judgment: Maneka Gandhi Vs Union Of India (1978)Published April 12th, 2007 :

This will be useful to those of you hounded by a Red Corner Alert or threats of Passport impoundment.
The SC intrepreted this as a case for due process. The article from the Hindu is given below:

http://judis.nic.in/supremecourt/qrydisp.asp?tfnm=5154

The SC kept the passport, but she was given a hearing.
A warning! It is a 144 page judgment.